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Seanad Éireann - Volume 148 - 05 July, 1996

Borrowing Powers of Certain Bodies Bill, 1996: Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.

SECTION 3.

Question proposed: “That section 3 stand part of the Bill.”

[1032] Mr. Daly: Does section 3 include local authorities who would borrow?

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. Coveney): No, it does not.

Question put and agreed to.

Section 4 agreed to.

SECTION 5.

Question proposed: “That section 5 stand part of the Bill.”

Mr. Daly: The legislation clearly says that the authorisation of a Minister is required for borrowing. I presume that in some cases where public bodies wish to borrow, depending on the amounts, ministerial authorisation may not be required. Is there any proposal to rationalise that so that we have a clear indication of who needs authority from a Minister to borrow? As the Minister is aware, different bodies may be responsible to different Ministers under different Acts of the Oireachas. Is there any proposal to rationalise this so we could have a clear indication that the same procedure applies to, for instance, the Department of Defence and the Marine and the Department of Enterprise and Employment?

Mr. Coveney: The legislation does not change any of the existing arrangements but there is no proposal in this Bill to rationalise them.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 6 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.

SECTION 9.

Question proposed: “That section 9 stand part of the Bill.”

Mr. Dardis: The Minister has satisfied me in his reply to my query regarding Central Bank regulations and how they would relate to the Minister's area of [1033] responsibility. I had a concern about liquidity ratios which are established by the Central Bank and it struck me that it would be possible. The Minister conceded its theory is such — I accept that it is more a theoretical possibility than a practical possibility — that it would be open to the Minister under the legislation to allow the ACC Bank to operate outside the liquidity ratios operating for banks in general.

Mr. Coveney: I am reminded that the EU laid down mandatory liquidity ratios which bind all financial institutions and it would not, therefore, be open to the Minister to do so. I can give Senators a categorical assurance that the Minister for Finance would be the last person to do that.

Mr. Daly: I am sure the Minister of State is aware of the comments in the media today in relation to bank charges, indicating that ACC Bank and the TSB have the lowest charges. While that is very welcome, there is general apprehension at the rates of bank charges. If people wish to withdraw some of their own cash from their accounts now they have to pay to do so, which is reaching the limit of decency. I wish to avail of this opportunity to encourage the major banks to take example from Trustee Savings Bank and ACC Bank. If the smaller banks can reduce charges, bigger banks have a responsibility to act likewise.

Mr. Burke: I welcome Senator Daly's comments in relation to bank charges. State banks should set the standard. If smaller institutions can do this, the larger banks should be able to do it. The larger banks are definitely ripping off the smaller individuals and the smaller businesses in the country.

Mr. Coveney: That is a widely held view both in this House and outside it. I hope the Director of Consumer Affairs, who only recently became entitled to get involved in this, will do so effectively. Anything that can be done by way of setting a headline from the State [1034] banks is welcome. However, it is a double edged sword.

Mr. Dardis: I wanted to make an apology to the Minister in the House for introducing a fifth banking force, as if a third banking force was not one too many. I apologise for getting my terminology mixed up.

Mr. Coveney: I was intrigued by that.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 10 to 12, inclusive, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.

Question proposed: “That the Bill do now pass”.

Mr. Sherlock: I am not expert in financial matters but I wish to make a comment from my own experience. Is as an taithí a bhfaightear an t-eolas, mar a dearfá. I do not know whether provision has been made for this, but I would like the Minister to address at some stage the various anomalies which arise in the matter of borrowing from the banks and other lending institutions, particularly the local loans fund of the local authority under the Small Dwellings Acquisitions Act, 1957. It is easy for people to provide protection for their mortgage under a mortgage protection policy, but some of the lending agencies insist on endowment policies which cause hardship for those making the repayments. An endowment mortgage adds a colossal amount to the borrowing repayments as I know from experience. People are showing greater interest in credit union borrowing and the five year restriction on such borrowing should be changed as a matter of urgency.

Mr. Daly: I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply to questions raised on Second Stage and compliment him, his officials and advisers for the expeditious way in which they dealt with the legislation.

[1035] Mr. Dardis: I also thank the Minister of State. We have expedited the passage of the Bill through the House by virtue of the fact that he dealt comprehensively with our questions. I hope the legislation will be successful and the money he is providing will be available when I approach the ACC bank for a loan.

Mr. Burke: I thank the Minister of State and his staff for dealing with the Bill in an expeditious manner. I also thank him for answering our questions on Second Stage as this meant there was no need to enter a detailed debate on Committee Stage.

Mr. Calnan: I compliment the Minister of State on his handling of the Bill and thank him for dealing with it in such a speedy fashion.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. Coveney): I first saw this Bill early this morning and equipped myself as best I could to deal with it. Members were very reasonable regarding the questions they raised. I am delighted the House agreed to take all stages of the Bill. I wish our business could always be completed so efficiently. There is a clear need for this legislation and Members immediately grasped the fact that it is not controversial and facilitated its passage. I am grateful for that.

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 12.35 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.

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