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Dáil Éireann - Volume 4 - 25 August, 1921

MINISTERIAL POWERS (DELEGATION) DECREE³

3. See Appendix 2.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS proposed the adoption of the Ministerial Powers (Delegation) Decree (Appendix 2). He said he would welcome any suggestions to improve it.

DEPUTY A. MACCABE (Member for Sligo) seconded. He thought the suggested changes were well worthy of the support of the House. He thought the powers should be delegated to the popularly elected co. councils and that the rest should be done by suggestion and by inspiration.

DEPUTY S. FITZGERALD asked if Deputies of the Dáil would be on those committees to which would be delegated [61] the powers. If so, it would be an anomalous position. They could assist in an advisory capacity. He asked for an explanation of the points giving those committees power to appoint any officers required or to delegate their powers to persons approved of by county or borough councils.

DEPUTY DONAL O'CALLAGHAN asked would the police come under local control. He strongly advocated that the police control should be centered in the local authorities of each district as was the rule in English districts.

DEPUTY M.P. COLLIVET asked would residence in a district qualify a Teachta to be a member of a committee.

PRESIDENT replied he should represent as well as reside in a district.

DEPUTY GAVAN DUFFY said this was the most drastic order ever presented to the Dáil. The Ministers of the Departments mentioned could delegate most extensive powers to committees in the country without any check on the proper exercise of those powers. He thought it was necessary to tone up clause 1. It was far more drastic than the English D.O.R.A. He suggested that all orders issued by Ministers under this Decree should be subject to Cabinet sanction. He asked how the Minister of a Department was going to exercise control over these numerous committees.

P.J. RUTTLEDGE maintained that the proposed committee would be somewhat unwieldy. Members would be spread over a wide area and it would be hard to get them together to administer. He suggested they would amalgamate three or four of those Departments or that they would confine the committee to the Ministers that would be appointed. He disagreed with the member for S. Dublin (G. Gavan Duffy) that the proposal was too drastic. He presumed every precaution would be taken to appoint the best men and that the appointments would be subject to the approval of the Minister in Dublin. Clause 5 proposed to give certain matters into the charge of the chairman which he did not think was right.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS said that was put in at the suggestion of one of the Deputies for Donegal who pointed out it would be difficult to bring a Unionist member of a council on the committee.

S. MACENTEE asked the Dáil to realise that they were now about, through their Ministers, to delegate to the nation all the powers of administration they possessed to committees some of which could not be made in any way responsible to it.

PRESIDENT said it was duties, not powers, that would be delegated. They simply wanted to have a local machinery for carrying out the duties of administration.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS proposed they would take the discussion of the Decree clause by clause.

SPEAKER said he thought it would be well to have the proposal made that the principle be adopted as a whole.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS then proposed that the general principle of the Bill be approved and then that they consider the matter as if in committee, clause by clause.

P. BRENNAN asked how did the Decree interfere with the existing powers of the county councils.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS said it would not limit or restrict the power of co. councils in any way.

SÉAMUS DOLAN seconded the proposal made by the Minister for Home Affairs.

After a further very lengthy discussion the President said all they wanted to get could be got in 5 or 6 lines and the proposer of the Bill was quite ready to agree to this “that the Cabinet be empowered to set up local administrative committees to whom it may delegate such administrative powers and duties as it thinks fit”.

LIAM DE RÓISTE said they would not accept any committees to boss co. councils already in force.

PRESIDENT replied that the local committees set up would act as local inspectors or supervisors acting on behalf [62] of the Cabinet. They wanted to have local supervision of administration, they could not manage otherwise. They could make their recommendations but as councils differed, different methods would have to be resorted to.

Motion withdrawn.

DAVID KENT moved “That the Cabinet be empowered to set up local administrative committees to whom it may delegate such administrative powers and duties as it thinks fit.”

M.P. COLLIVET seconded.

Ceist curtha agus aontuithe.

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