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Dáil Éireann - Volume 445 - 11 October, 1994

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take Nos. 11, 5, 6, 7, 2, 3, 1 and the Second Stage of the Stock Exchange Bill, 1994, subject to the agreement of No. 5. It is [1344] also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: 1. Nos. 5 and 6 shall be decided without debate. 2. The proceedings on No. 7 shall be brought to a conclusion within one hour and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening speech of the Minister of State and of the main spokesperson for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrat Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed five minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed five minutes in each case; and (iii) the Minister of State shall be called upon not less than five minutes before the debate is due to conclude to make a speech in reply. 3. Nos. 2 and 3 shall be taken today and the Second Stages shall-be taken together for the purposes of debate. Private Members' Business shall be No. 23, Motion 10.

An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 5 and 6 satisfactory? Agreed. Are the arrangements for dealing with No. 7 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton: No, Sir. I have already furnished you with a proposed amendment to the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle: I thought I had assent from that side of the House.

Mr. J. Bruton: Subject to this amendment, there is assent. I propose to add a fourth condition to the debate on item No. 7 as follows:

(iv) where a Member in possession accepts, in accordance with precedent and with the consent of the Chair, an orderly intervention by another Member querying or commenting on his or her speech the time taken by such an intervention and the reply thereto shall be added to the time allocated for the debate and for the speech of the Member in possession.

Miss Quill: Injury time.

[1345] Mr. J. Bruton: The debates of this House are attracting adverse comment because of the reading of speeches by Members where there is no possibility of these speeches being questioned. The House has essentially become a receptacle for the output of various Ministers' word processors. It is important that an opportunity be given for a Minister or another Member to be queried on a point during the debate, as occurs in other Parliaments.

[1346] An Ceann Comhairle: I have had an amendment from Deputy Bruton and I am accepting it as I consider it to be relevant to the arrangements proposed by the Taoiseach in respect of the debate on item No. 7. However, it appears to involve a wider issue which may be appropriate for consideration by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I am putting the amendment.

Amendment put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 79.

Tá

Barrett, Seán.

Boylan, Andrew.

Bradford, Paul.

Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).

Bruton, John.

Bruton, Richard.

Burke, Liam.

Byrne, Eric.

Carey, Donal.

Clohessy, Peadar.

Connaughton, Paul.

Crawford, Seymour.

Crowley, Frank.

Currie, Austin.

Deasy, Austin.

Deenihan, Jimmy.

De Rossa, Proinsias.

Doyle, Avril.

Dukes, Alan M.

Durkan, Bernard J.

Finucane, Michael.

Flaherty, Mary.

Flanagan, Charles.

Foxe, Tom.

Gregory, Tony.

Harney, Mary.

Harte, Paddy.

Hogan, Philip.

Kenny, Enda.

Keogh, Helen.

McCormack, Pádraic.

McDowell, Michael.

McGahon, Brendan.

McGrath, Paul.

McManus, Liz.

Mitchell, Jim.

Molloy, Robert.

Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).

O'Keeffe, Jim.

O'Malley, Desmond J.

Owen, Nora.

Quill, Máirín.

Rabbitte, Pat.

Ring, Michael.

Sargent, Trevor.

Shatter, Alan.

Timmins, Godfrey.

Yates, Ivan.

Níl

Ahern, Bertie.

Ahern, Dermot.

Ahern, Michael.

Ahern, Noel.

Aylward, Liam.

Bell, Michael.

Bhreathnach, Niamh.

Brennan, Matt.

Briscoe, Ben.

Broughan, Tommy.

Browne, John (Wexford).

Burke, Raphael P.

Byrne, Hugh.

Connolly, Ger.

Cowen, Brian.

Cullen, Martin.

Davern, Noel.

Dempsey, Noel.

[1347]Kenny, Seán.

Killeen, Tony.

Kirk, Séamus.

Kitt, Michael P.

Kitt, Tom.

Lawlor, Liam.

Leonard, Jimmy.

Martin, Micheál.

McCreevy, Charlie.

McDaid, James.

McDowell, Derek.

Moffatt, Tom.

Morley, P.J.

Moynihan, Donal.

Mulvihill, John.

Nolan, M.J.

O'Dea, Willie.

O'Donoghue, John.

O'Keeffe, Batt.

O'Leary, John.

O'Rourke, Mary.

de Valera, Síle.

Ellis, John.

Ferris, Michael.

Fitzgerald, Brian.

Fitzgerald, Eithne.

Fitzgerald, Liam.

Flood, Chris.

Foley, Denis.

Gallagher, Pat.

Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.

Haughey, Seán.

Higgins, Michael D.

Hilliard, Colm M.

Howlin, Brendan.

Hughes, Séamus.

Jacob, Joe.

Kavanagh, Liam.

Kenneally, Brendan.

[1348]O'Shea, Brian.

O'Sullivan, Toddy.

Pattison, Séamus.

Penrose, William.

Power, Seán.

Quinn, Ruairí.

Reynolds, Albert.

Ryan, Eoin.

Ryan, John.

Ryan, Seán.

Shortall, Róisín.

Smith, Brendan.

Smith, Michael.

Spring, Dick.

Stagg, Emmet.

Taylor, Mervyn.

Treacy, Noel.

Upton, Pat.

Wallace, Dan.

Walsh, Eamon.

Walsh, Joe.

Woods, Michael.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies E. Kenny and Boylan; Níl, Deputies Dempsey and Ferris.

Amendment declared lost.

An Ceann Comhairle: The question now is, “That the arrangements for dealing with No. 7 be agreed.” Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton: The script factory wins again.

An Ceann Comhairle: Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 2 and 3 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton: When does the Taoiseach propose to move the writs for the vacant constituency seats of Cork South Central and Cork North Central?

The Taoiseach: The normal practice in the House is that the party who held the seats before they became vacant move the writs. The Whips can have a discussion in relation to that matter if Deputy Bruton wishes.

Mr. J. Bruton: Is it not the case that one is a Government seat? As the Taoiseach is the head of the Government it is appropriate to ask him, at least in the case of the Government seat which is vacant in the constituency of Cork North Central, when the writ will be moved.

The Taoiseach: I have just answered the question. The normal tradition is that the parties concerned move the writ. I have no doubt the Labour Party will not leave Deputy Bruton in suspense much longer.

Mr. J. Bruton: Is the Taoiseach not in Government with the Labour Party?

An Ceann Comhairle: This should not give rise to argument, Deputy. A question has been asked and answered.

Mr. J. Bruton: What do the letters BIFFO stand for?

Miss Harney: Why was the Government not in a position to publish a legislative programme for this session?

The Taoiseach: As far as I recollect the legislative programme is normally published a short time after the session commences. The Deputy can take it from me that it will be published in due course.

[1349] Miss Harney: Will we have it this week?

The Taoiseach: The Cabinet will be talking about it and we will not delay it any longer than necessary.

Proinsias De Rossa: Will the Taoiseach indicate when we can expect the Bill to amend the Constitution in relation to divorce?

The Taoiseach: The Deputy is well aware, like everybody else, that the Minister for Equality and Law Reform is working on that matter and as soon as the legal matters are cleared up, he will not hesitate to bring it before the House.

Proinsias De Rossa: Will the Taoiseach indicate when he expects that will be?

The Taoiseach: The Deputy is aware that the courts have a decision here which is vital to this Bill.

Mr. J. Bruton: May I seek clarification on something?

An Ceann Comhairle: Sorry, Deputy, I am calling Deputy Sargent.

Mr. Sargent: Since coming to Dáil Éireann I have attempted to ascertain information on the Bill which relates to employment, economic matters and the environment — the Waste Bill. The Taoiseach has systematically and consistently given me the same reply on each occasion, that it will be soon and that the Bill is at an advanced stage.

An Ceann Comhairle: A question, Deputy, please.

Mr. Sargent: Will the Bill, when published, correct the inaccuracies contained in the recycling strategy which paint a different picture of what is feasible here?

[1350] An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is embarking on a speech.

The Taoiseach: We expect the draft of this Bill to come before the Government within the next three to four weeks.

Mr. Rabbitte: I wish to raise two brief matters. Does the Taoiseach intend to report to the House in detail on the Baldonnel summit and will he advise the Tánaiste to stay away from hangars in future?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is engaging in flippancy.

Mr. Rabbitte: In respect of promised legislation, will the Taoiseach tell the House when the Electoral Reform Bill will be published, having told the House on at least nine occasions I can identify, that it will be published “very soon” or “within a couple of weeks” or in the session in which the question was put?

The Taoiseach: The Electoral Reform Bill was approved by the Government today.

Mr. Hogan: In respect of promised legislation when will we have the Bus Competition Bill?

The Taoiseach: I cannot promise, it will be some time.

Mr. E. Kenny: I assume we will be discussing this matter at the Whips' meetings. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the legislation in respect of the compulsory attendance of witnesses will be published? Also when will the Occupiers' Liability Bill, which was to be published on a number of occasions, see the light of day?

The Taoiseach: The first draft of the Compellability of Witnesses Bill has just come to us and is at an advanced stage.

Proinsias De Rossa: Will the Taoiseach indicate if the programme of [1351] legislation for the current session, which he indicated will be published shortly, will include legislation concerning abortion information — which is required following the 1992 referendum — and the legislation required to deal with the substantive issue of abortion, arising from the X case, also dealt with in the November 1992 referendum?

The Taoiseach: Proposals for a Freedom of Information Bill will be included in the programme for this session.

Mr. Dukes: This afternoon the Minister for Justice promised legislation to regulate judicial appointments and said it would be ready in a matter of weeks rather than months. Does that mean the Bill will be given priority in the Attorney General's Office and in the parliamentary draftsman's office? Has the Labour Party agreed that the other items of priority legislation, which apparently give rise to the unsuitability of the current Attorney General for the other post, will be put on the long finger to deal with this particular problem?

An Ceann Comhairle: Let us not have a rehash of what was disposed of in a Private Notice Question.

Mr. Dukes: Will that Bill be given priority over the other “reforming” legislation?

The Taoiseach: The Minister for Justice dealt very extensively with the matter today and said this Bill was being prepared for the past 12 months. Deputy Dukes need not be concerned; it will be published in the near future.

Miss Harney: When the Taoiseach became leader of his party he made great play about letting in the light and giving information. Today the Taoiseach transferred all the questions tabled to him on the Tribunal of Inquiry into the Beef Processing Industry and he also refused to take the political question which arose today which all his [1352] predecessors would have taken. I recall the former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, taking questions about Greenncore and other such matters even though they could have been transferred to other Ministers.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. Dempsey): All Deputies have become great fans of Mr. Haughey since he left the House.

Miss Harney: Why is the Taoiseach afraid to answer questions?

Proinsias De Rossa: In response to my earlier question the Taoiseach said the Freedom of Information Bill would be included in the programme. I want to clarify that we are talking about the same Bill. Will the matter relating to abortion information be included in that Bill?

The Taoiseach: I am talking about the Freedom of Information Bill.

Mrs. Owen: I wish to ask two brief questions. In the interests of openness and transparency when the Taoiseach was briefing his Cabinet sub-committee last week did he remember to remind them that the Labour Party's signature tune in the last election was: “I will not back down”. Perhaps he would remind the Cabinet sub-committee of some of the words of that song.

Minister for Health (Mr. Howlin): It followed the rainbow.

Mr. Hogan: And the crock of gold.

Mrs. Owen: Will the Taoiseach amend the defence Acts to change the pension rights for ex-United Nations serving members of our forces? Will he agree it is most unseemly that men who serve this country in the blue beret have to picket outside this parliament to get their rights——

An Ceann Comhairle: We are talking now in terms of legislation promised, [1353] not in terms of any amendments that can be made to such legislation. That is a matter for the Deputy and the House to deal with at any given time.

Mrs. Owen: Would the Taoiseach like to answer?

An Ceann Comhairle: No, I am calling item No. 11.

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