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Dáil Éireann - Volume 444 - 23 June, 1994

Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Teagasc Directors.

6. Miss Harney asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry his response to the board of Teagasc regarding the future of the director of Teagasc; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

47. Ms Keogh asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry his response to the board of Teagasc regarding the future of the director of Teagasc; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. O'Shea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 47 together.

I have not received a proposal from the Teagasc Authority regarding the position of the director of the organisation.

Mr. Molloy: Did the board of Teagasc pass a vote of no confidence in its director? A senior officer in the Department is a member of the board of Teagasc. Is the view of this officer representative of the Minister's view?

Mr. O'Shea: The Teagasc Authority recently unanimously recommended that the director be removed from office. [668] Section 7 of the Agriculture (Research, Training and Advice) Act, 1988, states that the first director shall be appointed and may be removed from office at any time by the Minister and that each subsequent director shall be appointed and may be removed from office at any time by Teagasc with the consent of the Minister. The consent of the Minister has not been sought in this case. There is a tradition that public servants are not referred to in this House and I will observe that practice. All I will say is it seems from reports that a proposal will be submitted by Teagasc to the Department and obviously serious consideration will have to be given to any such proposal.

Mr. Hogan: Will the Minister agree it is unusual for the board of Teagasc — or the board of any organisation — to pass a vote of no confidence in its director? Without naming the individual concerned, will he give the reasons it was deemed necessary to pass a vote of no confidence in this case and the crimes committed by the said individual? Given that the decision was unanimous, is ministerial consent likely to be forthcoming in this case?

Mr. O'Shea: No proposal or background information has yet been submitted to the Department. Obviously I am not in a position to answer the Deputy's first question. Even though there has been much speculation in the media, I do not intend to add to it——

Mr. Hogan: Surely the Minister knows about the reports and whether they are accurate?

Mr. O'Shea: I am aware that a decision was taken by the board of Teagasc and I am awaiting whatever proposal may emanate from it. It would not be proper or appropriate for me to debate the matter further in the House.

Mr. Molloy: Does the Minister know if it was a unanimous decision?

[669] Mr. O'Shea: It has been indicated to me that it was a unanimous decision.

An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy McManus.

Mr. Molloy: Has the Minister had discussions with the senior officer in his Department who, as a member of the board, was involved in this decision?

Mr. O'Shea: I have had no discussion——

Mr. Molloy: The Minister.

Mr. O'Shea: ——with the senior officer in the Department about this matter. When the proposal is submitted to the Department it will be responded to. Pursuing the matter further in the House will not serve any purpose and we should observe the tradition whereby identifiable public servants are not the subject of debate in the House.

Mr. Molloy rose.

An Ceann Comhairle: Order, it is the Chair's function to call Members. I called Deputy McManus earlier and I apologise to her.

Ms McManus: Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, I get nervous when you apologise. Has the Minister received any correspondence from the research officers' group? If he receives a proposal from the board, will he consult the relevant trade union before making a decision?

Mr. O'Shea: That is a hypothetical question. The proposal from the board will have to be dealt with on its own merits and it would be wrong of me to engage in idle speculation at this stage. When the proposal is received it will be dealt with. The board was put in place by the Government to administer the affairs of Teagasc and any proposal made by it to the Government will be dealt with accordingly.

[670] An Ceann Comhairle: Question No. 7.

Mrs. Doyle: I indicated my wish to offer.

An Ceann Comhairle: I was hoping to make progress.

Mr. Molloy: It is not my intention to delay the House but I did not get an answer to my question.

An Ceann Comhairle: Repetition is a luxury we cannot afford at Question Time.

Mr. Molloy: My question related to the Minister, not his Minister of State. The Minister of State gave his position, but I asked if Deputy Walsh, the senior Minister, had any discussions about this matter with the senior officer in his Department who is a member of the board.

Mr. O'Shea: Obviously that is a matter for Minister Walsh; I cannot answer that question.

Mrs. Doyle: Is the Minister concerned that the reported decision by the board of Teagasc will set a precedent for other boards?

Mr. O'Shea: I am not aware of problems in terms of a precedent being set. Obviously a precedent will be set in terms of the course of action to be followed.

Mrs. Doyle: It has set a precedent in terms of the modus operandi of other boards.

Mr. O'Shea: That is a matter for those boards.

Mrs. Doyle: Is the Minister not concerned that this would set a precedent?

Mr. Molloy: There are already precedents — Bord Telecom.

[671] Mr. O'Shea: I am not concerned at this stage about other boards within the State sector. Just because something happens in one board it does not mean it will happen in other boards. Before full judgments can be formed a report will have to be submitted to the Department and dealt with.

Mr. Leonard: The provisions in the Act governing appointments and the removal of persons from office will guide the Minister in dealing with this matter. I do not understand why the Deputies opposite are referring to other boards——

Mr. Connor: That is a statement, not a question.

Mr. Leonard: Why are the Deputies trying to muddy the water by referring to other boards?

Mrs. Doyle: The board is trying to usurp those terms——

Mr. Molloy: The director is entitled to remain in office for another three years.

Mr. Leonard: There are specific regulations governing this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle: Order, I call Deputy Liz McManus for a final question.

Ms McManus: Given the contractual arrangements in place, will the Minister consult a representative body or the trade union representing people in this position if a proposal is submitted to him?

Mr. O'Shea: Under the legislation a contract is in place and the Minister has a function in this. If the board of Teagasc wished to terminate somebody's employment in this type of circumstance they must obtain ministerial approval. It is within that context that any proposal that might arise would find its way into the Minister's office.

[672] Mrs. Doyle: The Minister has a problem in that he appointed both the chairman and a director of the board.

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