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Dáil Éireann - Volume 314 - 15 May, 1979

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Certificates of Reasonable Value.

11. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for the Environment when the system of the [544] certificate of reasonable value for house prices will be revised and if the proposed new CRV will contain provisions in relation to the cost of house sites.

12. Mr. Keating asked the Minister for the Environment if he is aware that purchasers of houses in a development in Dublin (details supplied) are unable to avail of the £1,000 grant because the building company (name supplied) has not applied for CRV, and if he is satisfied with all aspects of this situation.

13. Mr. Keating asked the Minister for the Environment if it is in order for builders not to apply for certificates of reasonable value on housing estates which they are completing; the number of such non-applications; the problems arising from such non-applications; if the purchasers of such houses are entitled to State grants; if there is any mechanism for ensuring the satisfactory standards of such houses; and the proposed action to curb this evasion of responsibility and loss of income for house purchasers.

14. Mr. M. O'Leary asked the Minister for the Environment if he is satisfied with the operation of certificates of reasonable value at present, and if he has received any representation calling for a review of this system.

Mr. Barrett: With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 to 14, inclusive, together.

Mr. Keating: I object to that. They are completely separate questions.

Mr. Barrett: It is a grant requirement in respect of new houses provided for sale that a CRV be issued approving the price being charged and I am satisfied that such a requirement is desirable in order to ensure that public funds are used to assist and encourage the provision of reasonably priced houses. House purchasers have been repeatedly advised of this requirement and have been strongly recommended to see the CRV before committing themselves to purchase. There is no legal obligation on [545] builders providing new houses for sale to obtain CRVs and there is no precise information in my Department as to the number of such houses for which CRVs are not sought.

My Department exercise no direct control over the structural standards of non-CRV, non-grant aided houses. However, houses in this category that are registered under the national house building guarantee scheme are inspected at three stages—foundation, roofing and completion—by my Department's housing inspectors under the inspection service provided for the guarantee company. In areas where building bye-laws operate, such as Dublin city and county, there is an independent inspection procedure to ensure that building standards comply with bye-law requirements.

I have received representations from various interests regarding different aspects of the CRV system and I have already indicated that I am not happy with all aspects of the present position. Accordingly, the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1979, which has been circulated to Deputies, will provide for a comprehensive overhaul of the statutory framework for the system of certifying reasonable value in respect of the prices of new houses and flats.

Mr. Keating: Does the Minister accept that it is a ludicrous position to have a CRV system which is not in some way legally mandatory or obligatory? One of the questions specifically asked is why it is that the Minister's Department do not feel obliged to try to assess the number of people evading or eluding the certificate system, which is making a mockery of the whole scheme.

Mr. Barrett: The Deputy refers to the number evading or eluding. Grant-aided houses have to have a CRV. Also the building societies, with the exception of one building society, have been looking for CRVs up to a certain level of loan. It has not been obligatory. One cannot make a builder apply for a CRV but at least people who are buying houses should look for a CRV if they are looking [546] for a grant, before they pay a deposit on any house. With regard to builders eluding it if they do not apply for a CRV they are on the market without one.

Mr. Keating: There are two points here. The Minister spoke about builders on the market without a CRV. Those people, as he knows, have no difficulty in selling their houses.

Does the Minister accept that the people who are suffering are the purchasers who are not getting the full benefit of the various grant schemes which are available to them? Secondly, and specifically in regard to Question No. 12, how can the Minister seriously expect the average builder to comply with this scheme when members of his own Oireachtas party are deliberately avoiding applying for CRVs and the purchasers of those houses are subject to major financial loss as a result?

Mr. Barrett: I have no knowledge of what the Deputy is talking about.

Mr. Keating: If the Minister had done his homework properly——

Mr. Barrett: I have no knowledge of any member of the Oireachtas party——

Mr. Keating: How does the Minister not have any knowledge of this in view of the fact that this question was tabled months ago? The question was quite specific and the details were supplied. If the Minister has no knowledge of it, it is his fault.

Mr. Barrett: I do not have any knowledge of it.

Mr. Keating: The Minister has not done his work and has refused to answer the question.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle: Order, please.

Mr. Keating: The name is there and the Minister knows who it is.

Mr. Harte: No communication.

[547] Mr. Quinn: With reference to Question No. 11, did I hear the Minister say that he has no proposals to incorporate the cost of house sites in the CRVs?

Mr. Barrett: The cost of house sites is always a factor.

Mr. Quinn: Is there any proposal within the new system to revise the method of assessing the cost of sites? I know the cost of a site is included, but is there any element of price control implicit in the new system?

Mr. Barrett: The only way we can do that in the working of the CRV system would be assessing what is a reasonable price.

Mr. Quinn: Effectively there will be no change?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle: We are not debating housing. The Chair will not permit a long series of questions.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan-Monaghan): My question deals with CRVs. Arising out of the Minister's advice to purchasers to insist on a CRV, surely he is aware of the present practice under which builders refuse to do business with purchasers who require a CRV and as a result have to pay much more for their houses and lose their grants? Will the Minister do something to deal with that objectionable problem?

Mr. Keating: The Minister's builder asked them to sign to the effect that they would not apply——

Mr. Barrett: I am tightening up the whole system under the new housing Bill. I know there have been abuses by a few builders and in some cases solicitors have been involved.

Mr. Harte: May I ask——

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan-Monaghan): Would the Minister not agree——

[548] An Ceann Comhairle: Order. Your colleague is asking a question.

Mr. Harte: In his reply to Deputy Keating why did the Minister say he did not know what the Deputy was talking about or that he had no knowledge of what the Deputy was talking about when, in Question No. 12 Deputy Keating gave the details and the name was supplied? Is that not a strange answer for the Minister to give—he does not know what the Deputy is talking about?

Mr. Barrett: I said I had no knowledge of what the Deputy was referring to.

Mr. Harte: The details were supplied.

Mr. Barrett: I have no knowledge from the Department of what the Deputy is referring to.

Mr. Keating: Why not? I sent photo-copies of the letters which had been signed by the people who bought the houses——

(Interruption.)

An Ceann Comhairle: Order. I am calling the next question.

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