Dáil Éireann - Volume 303 - 02 February, 1978

Written Answers. - State Employment.

249. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for the Public Service the numbers employed (a) directly by and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for the Public Service (Mr. Colley): The following is the information requested:

Departmentof the Public Service

Civil Service Commission

1 January 1977

330

175

1 July 1977

335

170

1 January 1978

334

170

As regards 1 January 1979, it is not [592] possible, because of various unforeseeable factors such as unexpected vacancies, to say how many officers will be serving on that date.

No information is readily available regarding the numbers indirectly employed.

250. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Finance the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Finance (Mr. Colley): The information sought by the Deputy is not readily available in my Department. If he will repeat the question in three weeks' time, this information, which is now being compiled, will be available.

251. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Health the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Health (Mr. Haughey): The information requested is as follows in so far as directly employed persons are concerned for the nearest convenient dates:

Date

28 February 1977

5 July 1977

1 January 1978

(estimated)

1 January 1979

(estimated)

Department of Health

340

340

341

341

Health Boards and other health agencies

50,987

51,912

53,282

55,497

Information is not available as to the extent of indirect employment.

[593] 252. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Social Welfare the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978, and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Social Welfare (Mr. Haughey):

(1) The numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by my Department on the dates mentioned were as follows:

(a)

(b)

Directly

Indirectly

1 January 1977

2,778

84

1 July 1977

2,809

80

1 January 1978

2,801

81

(2) The numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by the National Committee on Pilot Schemes to Combat Poverty, an agency under the aegis of my Department, on the dates mentioned were as follows:

(a)

(b)

Directly

Indirectly

1 January 1977

40

Nil

1 July 1977

40

Nil

1 January 1977

40

Nil

It is not possible at present to state the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 by my Department and by the National Committee on Pilot Schemes to Combat Poverty.

253. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Fisheries the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Fisheries (Mr. Lenihan): As it will take some time to assemble the information sought, I would be obliged if the Deputy would agree to table the question again in three weeks' time when the information will be available.

[594] 254. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Tourism and Transport (Mr. Faulkner): The information sought by the Deputy is not readily available in my Department.

If the Deputy would repeat the question in three weeks' time, the information, which is now being compiled, will be available.

255. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Faulkner): Statistics of numbers actually employed by my Department on particular dates are not readily available. The authorised establishment for my Department was 27,239 at 1 January 1977, 27,195 at 1 July 1977, and 28,673 at 1 January 1978. With regard to 1 January 1979, because of various unforeseeable factors, it is not possible to give an estimate of the numbers expected to be employed or of the authorised establishment on that date.

RTE is the only agency under the aegis of my Department. The numbers employed in Radio Telefís Éireann were 1,792 at 1 January 1977, 1,834 at 1 July 1977, and 1,858 at 1 January 1978 and it is expected that approximately 1,910 will be employed on 1 January 1979.

Neither my Department nor RTE are in a position to give an indication of the numbers employed indirectly as a result of their activities.

256. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Agriculture the numbers employed [595] (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Gibbons): The information sought by the Deputy is not readily available in my Department. If the Deputy would repeat the question in three weeks' time, the information, which is now being compiled, will be available.

257. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be [596] employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy (Mr. O'Malley): The information sought by the Deputy is not readily available in my Department.

If the Deputy would repeat the question in three weeks' time, the information, which is now being compiled, will be available.

258. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Defence the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Molloy): The information sought by the Deputy is given in the attached schedule.

Numbers employed on 1/1/77

Numbers employed on 1/7/77

Numbers employed on 1/1/78

Numbers expected to be employed on 1/1/79

Directly

Indirectly

Directly

Indirectly

Directly

Indirectly

Directly

Indirectly

Civil Service Staff

565

572

570

589*

Permanent Defence Force

14,662

14,776

14,750

15,150

Civilians employed with the Defence Forces

1,946

1,958

1,983

2,072*

* Establishment figure: actual number employed on the basis of experience will probably be somewhat less.

An allocation of £50,000 for new posts in the Civil Service is included in the Estimate.

259. Mr. P. Parry asked the Minister for Justice the numbers employed ployed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Justice (Mr. G. Collins): The only agency or body that would be relevant to the question, apart from the Department itself, is the Garda Síochána. The relevant figures for the Department and the Garda Síochána are as follows:

Department of Justice

Garda Síochána

Numbers serving on 1 January 1977

2,531

8,464

Numbers serving on 1 July 1977

2,570

8,485

Numbers serving on 1 January 1978

2,712

8,829

Numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 (on present projections)

3,590

9,500

There is indirect employment of a considerable number of people in the provision of services such as food and medical supplies and equipment [597] to institutions for which I am responsible but it would be impossible to quantify the numbers involved. Building work for my Department in relation to garda stations, prisons, and so on, which would involve indirect employment is under the control of the Office of Public Works.

260. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. O'Kennedy): The numbers employed directly by (1) the Department of Foreign Affairs and (2) the Agency for Personal Services Overseas (APSO) are as follows:

Department

APSO

1 January 1977

670

6

1 July 1977

676

6

1 January 1978

684

8

1 January 1979 (estimate)

702

10

[598] APSO is the only agency concerned for which the Department of Foreign Affairs have responsibility. The Department are not concerned with indirect employment.

261. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for the Environment the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Barrett): The information requested, in so far as it is available, is being compiled and will be available in a week's time if the Deputy repeats his question.

262. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Labour the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Labour (Mr. G. Fitzgerald): Following is the statement:

Department of Labour

AnCO—The Industrial Training Authority

CERT Limited

Numbers Employed on

Directly

Indirectly

Directly

Indirectly

Directly

Indirectly

1 January 1977

530

1,262

40

5

1 July 1977

535

1,314

39

20

1 January 1978

550

1,363

20

37

5

Numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates

(a)

660

1,543

20

42

5

(a) This figure assumes that all posts on the authorised establishment will be filled on the relevant date.

263. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for the Gaeltacht the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January [599] 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Aire na Gaeltachta (Mr. D. Gallagher):

(a) Fostaíocht dhíreach lánaimsire

Roinn na Gaeltacha: 68 ar 1/1/77, 71 ar 1/7/77, 67 ar 1/1/78 agus 70 (measta) ar 1/1/79.

Gaeltarra Éireann: 119 ar 1/1/77, 131 ar 1/7/77, 128 ar 1/7/78 agus 146 (measta) are 1/1/79.

Bord na Gaeilge: 8 ar 1/1/77, 8 ar 1/7/77, 10 ar 1/1/78 agus 17 (measta) ar 1/1/79.

Arramara Teoranta: 62 ar 1/1/77, 65 ar 1/7/77, 61 ar 1/1/78 agus 65 (measta) ar 1/1/79.

(b) Fostaíocht indíreach

Roinn na Gaeltachta: Cabhraíonn scéimeanna éagsúla na Roinne— scéimeanna do thithíocht, d'fheabh-súcháin, do chúrsaí cultúrtha agus sóisialacha agus d'eagrais Ghaeilge agus chultúrtha—chun obair a chur ar fáil ach ní chuirtear eolas le chéile i dtaobh na fostaíochta sin.

Gaeltarra Éireann: Chun obair a chur are fáil cabhraíonn Gaeltarra le tionscail éagsúla agus is mar seo a leanas a bhí líon na ndaoine a bhí ag obair sna tionscail sin uile:— 3,502 ar 1/1/77, 4,110 ar 1/7/77 agus 4,213 ar 1/1/78; beifear ag súil le 5,000 ar 1/1/79. Bíonn fostaíocht bhreise ar thógáil, agus mar sin de, ach ní chuirtear eolas le chéile ina taobh.

Bord na Gaeilge: Dada.

Arramara Teoranta: Bíonn obair pháirtaimsire ag daoine a bhailíonn feamainn, agus mar sin de d'Arramarra agus meastar líon na ndaoine sin mar seo a leanas:— 345 ar 1/1/77, 411 ar 1/7/77, 346 ar 1/1/78 agus 360 ar 1/1/79.

264. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Education the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 January 1978, and the numbers [600] expected to be employed on 1 January 1979, on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Education (Mr. Wilson): The numbers of persons employed directly in the Department of Education and the agencies for which it is responsible on the dates in question is as follows:—

1 January 1977

1 January 1978

Department of Education

1,080

1,111

National Gallery

47

47

Higher Education Authority

21

20

National Council for Educational Awards

23

23

The number of teachers and other personnel employed at the various levels of education is as follows:—

1 January 1977

1 January 1978

1st level

18,322

18,932

2nd level

18,967

20,092

3rd level

4,132

4,267

It would not be appropriate at this stage to give projections for 1 January 1979.

265. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for Economic Planning and Development the numbers employed (a) directly and (b) indirectly by (1) his Department, and (2) agencies under the aegis of his Department on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the numbers expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for Economic Planning and Development (Professor O'Donoghue): The Department of Economic Planning and Development was established under statute on 13 December 1977. On 1 January 1978, 102 heads of staff were employed in my Department. In relation to 1 January 1979, because of various unforeseen factors—for example, vacancies and so on—it is not possible to quote figures for this date.

On 1 January 1978 there were 111 people employed in the agencies now [601] under the aegis of my Department— the same number as were employed in those agencies on 1 January 1977 and 1 July 1977. Included in this figure are 29 part-time consultants. Current estimates imply some increase in the staffing of these agencies. However, the precise details as to the implementation of this increase have yet to be decided in the case of each agency.

266. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for the Public Service the amounts included in the current estimates for (1) the carryover effect of national wage agreements (2) equal pay and other adjustments (3) the additional full year cost of increased employee numbers for 1977 (4) the additional full year cost of increased employee numbers for 1978 and (5) other expenditure.

Minister for the Public Service (Mr. Colley): The information asked for falls into three categories, namely, public service pay, other pay and public service pensions.

The term public service pay covers the pay costs of the civil service, industrial staff, army, gardaí, teachers and health board staffs. The 1978 estimate for public service pay is £676.3 million which represents an increase of £70.2 million or 11.6 per cent over the provisional 1977 outturn. This increase can be broken down under the headings referred to in the question as follows:

(1) The carryover into 1978 of the 1977 national wage agreement is about £27 million,

(2) the carryover into 1978 of equal pay and other adjustments made in 1977 is estimated at about £2.7 million,

(3) the additional full year cost of increased employee numbers for 1977 (i.e. posts created in 1977) is estimated at £21.7 million,

(4) the additional cost in 1978 of increased employee numbers in 1978 (i.e. posts to be created during 1978 and for which provision is made in the current estimates) is £8.8 million and

[602] (5) the balance of the increase— about £10 million—would be due to miscellaneous items such as increments, allowances and employers' social welfare contributions.

The “other pay” category in the current estimates covers the pay costs of grant-aided non-commercial State-sponsored bodies, universities and colleges, and voluntary hospitals and homes. The 1978 estimate for this category is £125.4 million which represents an increase of £12.3 million or 10.9 per cent over the provisional 1977 outturn. This increase can be broken down roughly as follows (because of the grant-aided nature of the expenditure the same detail is not available as in the case of public service pay):

(1) the carryover of the 1977 national wage agreement would account for about £4.5 million,

(2) about £3.7 million would be due to the increased cost in 1978 arising from the creation of additional posts in the period from 5 July 1977 or from posts still to be created in 1978. The full annual cost of these posts would be about £4.4 million, and

(3) the balance of the increase— some £4.1 million—would be due to miscellaneous factors similar to those affecting the public service pay estimates, as well as the carryover of the cost of posts created in the period prior to 5 July 1977.

The public service pensions category covers the pensions costs of the civil service, gardaí, teachers, army (including veterans of the war of independence), health boards and parliamentarians. The estimate for pensions is £63.5 million which represents an increase of £6.5 million or 11.4 per cent over the provisional 1977 outturn. The main factors contributing to this increase would be

(1) the carryover of the 1977 national pay agreement which would account for about £2.6 million, and

(2) the increasing number of pensioners e.g. there has been a big increase in the number of pensioners under the pension scheme for non-established [603] staff from 1,757 on 1 January 1977 to 2,370 on 1 January 1978.

Explanatory Note

The above estimates for 1978 in respect of the three categories are exclusive of any provision for a new national pay agreement in 1978.

267. Mr. P. Barry asked the Minister for the Public Service the number employed in the public service on 1 January 1977, 1 July 1977, 1 January 1978; and the number expected to be employed on 1 January 1979 on the basis of current estimates.

Minister for the Public Service (Mr. Colley): The following is the information requested:

Date

Number employed in the public service (a)

1 January 1977

150,889

1 July 1977

152,000 (b)

1 January 1978

155,000 (c)

(a) The “public service” in this context comprises the civil service (including industrials) Garda Síochána. Defence Forces, teachers, health boards.

(b) and (c) estimated.

With regard to 1 January 1979, the tables issued in connection with the budget contain information about the number of posts to be created in the public service up to that date.