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Dáil Éireann - Volume 246 - 07 May, 1970

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. 1.

Mr. Cosgrave: On the Order of Business, I take it that the debate is unlimited and that the normal sitting hours do not apply in the circumstances of this motion?

The Taoiseach: I understand that the normal sitting hours do not apply but I understand, too, I would require at this stage to name the next sitting day, which I propose to be next Tuesday.

Mr. Corish: Do we understand from this that the intention is to commence the business now at four minutes past ten and to conclude it at 10.30?

An Ceann Comhairle: It is unlimited.

The Taoiseach: I am not proposing any limitation as to time.

Mr. Corish: I gave you notice that I proposed to move the Adjournment of the Dáil in order to have consideration given to a motion of urgent national importance: that of the lack of confidence of this House in the Taoiseach and his Government.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has considered the Deputy's motion but cannot accept it. In the short time available before midnight, in view of the business ordered, it is not possible for the Dáil to fit in this motion. The Dáil could not appoint a time after midnight according to the Standing Orders and therefore the Deputy can [636] only raise the matter at the next sitting of the Dáil.

Mr. Corish: May I make a submission? I submit to the House that it is much more important to discuss now confidence, or lack of confidence, in the Government rather than to discuss a motion which merely calls for the approval of the appointment of a Parliamentary Secretary to be a Minister. It would have been much more appropriate, rather than to have this discussion on the appointment of a Minister, if the Taoiseach had come in with a similar sort of motion.

An Ceann Comhairle: I am afraid it would not be possible. I have outlined the reasons I cannot accept the motion. Standing Orders do not permit it.

Mr. Corish: I take it the motion must be accepted? I assume it is up to the Government to decide hereafter when it will be taken?

An Ceann Comhairle: As I pointed out, the Deputy can raise the matter at the next sitting of the Dáil.

Mr. Murphy: The motion before us is rather ridiculous in view of the circumstances under which we meet.

Dr. Thornley: Hear, hear.

Mr. Cosgrave: May I inquire if the Taoiseach proposes that, at the conclusion of the discussion at an unspecified hour on the motion the Taoiseach proposes to move, that the Dáil would then adjourn until next Tuesday?

The Taoiseach: I understand that, in order to have the next sitting day on next Tuesday, I must propose that motion now.

Mr. Cosgrave: I suggest we might consider Friday instead of Tuesday.

Deputies: Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach: I will agree to that, or tomorrow if you want it.

Mr. Corish: Let us get it clear. Do we sit until tomorrow morning?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Dáil will sit at 10.30 tomorrow morning.

[637] Dr. Thornley: How long will we sit now?

An Ceann Comhairle: There is no time specified.

The Taoiseach: If the House wishes to sit tomorrow I would wish to introduce a motion naming other Members of the House to be members of the Government.

Mr. O'Higgins: Would the Taoiseach repeat that, please?

The Taoiseach: If the House wishes to sit tomorrow I would wish to introduce a motion naming other Members of the Dáil to be members of the Government. If the parties opposite would agree on that, as a continuation of this debate or otherwise, it is a matter for them.

Mr. Corish: There is still confusion. For how long do we sit for this session? Up until 10.30 tomorrow and then continue on again?

The Taoiseach: Yes.

Mr. Cosgrave: I suggest 10.30 on Friday instead of tomorrow.

The Taoiseach: I am agreeable to that.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Murphy: Surely the issue before the House is much broader than that set down here on the Order Paper:

That Dáil Éireann approve the nomination by the Taoiseach of Deputy Desmond J. O'Malley for appointment by the President to be a member of the Government.

The Taoiseach: If the Deputy would give way perhaps I could help him.

Mr. Murphy: Very few people here are interested in this particular motion at the present time.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a discussion on the motion before it is moved.

Mr. Murphy: Before it is moved? Is that not what we are gathered here for: to debate what is on the Order Paper?

[638] The Taoiseach: Does the Deputy give way?

Mr. Murphy: Yes.

The Taoiseach: I have indicated to the leader of the Deputy's party that I propose to make a general statement having moved the motion before the House.

Mr. Corish: Might I suggest that the Chief Government Whip would get in touch with the other Whips to see what sort of order we will have tonight. I am in favour of having a limited debate tonight with a resumption tomorrow morning at 10.30.

The Taoiseach: Fine Gael would not agree. If there is going to be a resumption tomorrow or Friday I would be prepared to do so on the basis that I am free to introduce a motion nominating other members of the Government.

Mr. Cosgrave: Friday at 10.30 a.m.

Mr. Corish: No, we want to sit tomorrow.

Dr. Thornley: We want to see those vacant chairs filled.

Mr. Coughlan: In view of the urgency of this matter and the critical national crisis——

(Interruptions.)

Mr. P. Belton: It is no laughing matter.

Mr. Coughlan: Wallpaper will not cover you tonight. In view of the critical national crisis before us it is only fair and just to the people of Ireland that this discussion should continue again tomorrow morning.

Mr. Corish: We are wasting time. Might I suggest that the three Whips get together on the two questions: how long we sit tonight and whether we resume tomorrow.

The Taoiseach: I am agreeable.

Mr. Cosgrave: I take it that the debate will be unlimited in scope?

[639] The Taoiseach: That is a matter for the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. Corish: Are we only going to discuss the appointment of Deputy O'Malley?

The Taoiseach: We will also have a discussion on the basis of the statement I propose to make after I have moved the motion before the House.

Mr. Cosgrave: That entitles any other Deputy to make a statement?

The Taoiseach: May I suggest that at this stage we might come to an agreement that we sit not later than 2.30 a.m. and resume at 3 p.m. tomorrow?

Mr. Cosgrave: Let the Whips discuss the times.

The Taoiseach: They may not be able to agree any more than we can.

Mr. Cosgrave: They can come back to us at any rate. We start this debate without limitation as to time and content?

Dr. Thornley: If we are to meet at 2.30 or 3 p.m. tomorrow——

The Taoiseach: I have suggested that we sit not later than 2.30 tonight and resume at 3 p.m. tomorrow, at which time I shall be free to move the other motion to which I have referred.

Dr. Thornley: I am asking the Taoiseach to assure me that the debate would then be broadened by slightly greater information than the promotion of Deputy O'Malley.

Mr. Corish: I would agree with a limitation to 2.30 a.m. and a discussion as to whether the next sitting day be Thursday or Friday.

The Taoiseach: We will let the Whips decide.

Mr. Cosgrave: We will sit until 2.30 a.m. with the debate unlimited as to content?

[640] The Taoiseach: I cannot decide that.

Mr. Cosgrave: I want to make it quite clear that there can be no restriction on the extent of discussion. Any matters that are involved in this— and they are much more than the nomination of a Deputy to be a member of the Government—are open to discussion without restriction.

An Ceann Comhairle: When is it proposed to conclude the debate and when will the concluder of the motion be called?

Mr. Corish: That is something to be discussed. The discussion we are supposed to engage in tonight is on the appointment of a Minister for Justice. The Taoiseach says that on Thursday or Friday he will bring in another motion nominating four more Ministers. We assume, therefore, there would be no vote of conclusion on the motion regarding Deputy O'Malley. We would have five Ministries and a decision would be made by the House on all the proposals?

The Taoiseach: I am agreeable to that.

Dr. Cruise-O'Brien: Will the Taoiseach not make a general statement on the crisis which the whole country knows exists? Will he not make that statement now so that we may consider it?

The Taoiseach: I am prepared to do that. It is the Deputies opposite who are making the trouble. Labour Deputies want to sit tomorrow and Fine Gael Deputies want to sit on Friday. I am prepared to sit tomorrow or Friday or tomorrow and Friday provided I will be able to introduce the other motion to which I have referred.

Mr. Cosgrave: Let the Whips discuss the details. Let us start with this but it must be clearly understood that there is no restriction on the terms of this discussion.

Mr. R. Burke: I suggest that the Whips be allowed to meet and to report back to the Dáil not later than 11 p.m. tonight.

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