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Dáil Éireann - Volume 13 - 10 December, 1925

PRIVATE BUSINESS. - ORDER OF BUSINESS.

The PRESIDENT: I propose to take the Committee Stage to-morrow and the final stages on Tuesday. If it were desired to take all the stages on Tuesday, I would meet that desire.

Mr. ESMONDE: May I ask up to what time will amendments be received if the Committee Stage is taken to-morrow?

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: If the Committee Stage be taken to-morrow, amendments would have to be received without notice.

Major COOPER: I suggest that the Committee Stage be taken on Tuesday and it would be possible then to take all the stages with it. I think that is only fair to those who want time to draft amendments, and to those who want to discuss them. Personally, although I support the Bill, I want to see that those who are opposed to it all have fair play.

Mr. JOHNSON: It is not quite correct to take all the stages in the same day, as I take it there will be a financial resolution required before the Committee Stage.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: No, I think not.

Mr. JOHNSON: Standing Order 90 says:—

“When a Bill involves any aid, grant, or charge upon the public revenue, or upon the people, the motion referred to in this Order may be taken at any time prior to the Committee Stage of the Bill.”

The motion is for an aid or charge on the public revenue. The Bill contains a schedule which receives the force of law, I understand, if my reading is right, when this Bill becomes an Act. That law says that the Irish Free State shall repay to the British Government at such time or times certain moneys. I think that is a charge on [1770] the revenue. The assumption of liability is, I submit, a charge upon the public revenue and therefore it will require a financial resolution.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: The Agreement is being given the force of law, but money is not being appropriated for any purpose by this Bill. It is stated in paragraph 4 of the Schedule:—

“The Government of the Irish Free State hereby agrees to promote legislation increasing by ten per cent., etc.”

That means that further legislation will be necessary in order to give complete effect and in order to impose the charge involved in paragraph No. 4 of the Agreement. Similarly for the purpose of paragraph No. 3, money would have to be appropriated and paid in such a manner as is agreed upon; it cannot be paid without further authority by the Dáil.

Mr. JOHNSON: Would you indicate what would prevent the Minister for Finance from paying, under the authority of this Agreement, money in respect of Section 3 of the Schedule? If this receives the force of law it is authority to repay the British Government certain moneys.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: Money cannot be spent unless it appears in the Estimates or unless there is authority to pay out of the Central Fund. Otherwise a further process in the Dáil is necessary, and the question to determine now is when the Committee Stage will be taken.

The PRESIDENT: I propose to take the Committee Stage, with all the other Stages, on Tuesday next. The Seanad will require time to meet and we are getting near Christmas now. We have spent considerable time on this Bill, and I would like to be able to afford time to the Seanad on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday next, and, if necessary, on Saturday, to discuss it. I would like to be able to give them four days, the same as we had ourselves.

Mr. JOHNSON: For my own part, I want to point this out, that I am not thinking of proposing any considerable [1771] amendments. But there is a very important question to be considered, that is, the effect of this Bill on the Constitution, and I think that ought to be discussed. What time that will take I cannot say. It may not take very long, but it raises a very important issue. I submit that we ought not to tie ourselves, because there may be other amendments that I know nothing at all about, and they may take some time. We ought, certainly, to be in a position to deal with the constitutional issue that is raised by the introduction of this Bill.

Major COOPER: I suggest that we would be at a great disadvantage if these amendments were to be given without notice and were not printed on the Order Paper. It would be very much better, I think, to give an interval, say, until Tuesday next so as to enable Deputies to give notice to-morrow of any amendments that they propose to move. It would be much more satisfactory to have all the amendments printed and in our hands, rather than to have them written and handed in, without notice, on scraps of paper. Procedure of that kind is always unsatisfactory, and leads to ill-considered legislation. There is abundant business on the Order Paper to keep us engaged to-morrow, and what I suggest is that the President should consent to take the Committee Stage on Tuesday.

The PRESIDENT: Very well, I accept that. I expect to be allowed to get all the stages on Tuesday by giving the necessary notice now.

Mr. JOHNSON: Of course, if the President uses his majority and insists upon that we cannot prevent it, but I think it must not be taken as agreed that, notwithstanding what may arise in the course of the discussions, all stages must be finished on Tuesday. We are dealing with a very important matter, and I do not think that we should be bound or that we should bind ourselves now to take all the stages on Tuesday. I do not intend to impede the progress of the Bill beyond what is reasonable.

The PRESIDENT: I am satisfied with that.

[1772] AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: Does Deputy Johnson prefer Tuesday to to-morrow for the Committee Stage of the Bill?

Mr. JOHNSON: Yes.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: The Committee Stage of the Bill is, therefore, fixed for Tuesday. Amendments in that case will have to be received by me on Saturday at the very latest. Personally I would prefer time to consider amendments.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 15th December, 1925.

Mr. O'CONNELL: May I ask what business will be taken to-morrow?

Mr. JOHNSON: There were some questions left over to-day which were to be answered this evening.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: It was arranged that the questions would be asked immediately after the adjournment for tea. It is my fault that they were not taken then, and what I propose is that they should appear on the Order Paper to-morrow, if Deputies are agreeable.

The PRESIDENT: With regard to the business for to-morrow, I propose to take the business on the Order Paper as it stands.

Major COOPER: Can the President say if the motion which is down in the name of the Minister for Industry and Commerce with regard to the setting up of a tribunal in connection with food prices will be taken to-morrow?

The PRESIDENT: We propose to take that next week.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: Will the School Attendance Bill be taken to-morrow?

The PRESIDENT: I should prefer that it was not taken to-morrow.

Mr. BAXTER: There was an agreement, I think, that it would not be taken to-morrow.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.40 p.m. until 12 o'clock noon on Friday, 11th December.

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